Ellie Baker While you all get upset about Corbyn and his non existent IRA connections .. let me remind you of our Conservatives governments involvement with human rights abusers and dictators openly funding ISIS .. Happening right now
Theresa May hosted the Emir of Qatar, Sheikh Al Thani, saying that his country was a ‘natural partner’ of the UK which was seeking to promote investment and ‘defence’ (i.e., arms exports)The meeting followed Defence Secretary Michael Fallon hosting Qatar’s Defence Minister to discuss joint military training in which Fallon also announced the creation of a new Deputy Defence Attaché role in Qatar ‘which will ensure strong and continued defence engagement’.
Qatar has been accused of financially supporting radical opposition groups in Syria and Iraq and has allowed private fundraising for Al Qaeda, the Islamic State group and other jihadist organisationshttp ://www.reuters.com/article/us-iraq-saudi-qatar-idUSBREA2806S20140309
Theresa May also hosted the King of Bahrain, Hamad bin Isa al Khalifa, notorious for his country’s brutal crackdown on dissidents and the Shia community.
The Prime Minister reiterated the UK’s ‘firm commitment to the security of the Gulf’ – government code for continuing support for the regime.
Royal visits have also been made to Oman and the United Arab Emirates and the government has reaffirmed its commitment to building two new military bases in Bahrain and Oman…
The current King of Bahrain, Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa is a descendent of the long-ruling Al Khalifa dynasty, which has held power in the country since 1783. Al Khalifa is a tactical partner of the United States in the Gulf region, yet his reign since 2002 has nonetheless administered violent repression of anti-monarchy activists
Interesting point the UK spent £2m in aid money last year to support humanitarian reform in the Bahrain, there was still widespread evidence of the use of torture by security services
…so we give them money to stop human rights abuses and then sell them weapons and cosy up
Meanwhile, Britain has struck an extraordinary new special relationship with the military rulers of Egypt, who overthrow a democratically-elected government in 2013. In August, Theresa May spoke with Egyptian military ruler General Abdel Fattah el-Sisi and ‘discussed a new chapter in bilateral relations between the UK and Egypt’. Since late 2015 numerous ministerial meetings have been held to promote military
Abdel Fattah al-Sisi of Egypt has presided over the flagrant abuse of human rights since taking office a year ago pledging to restore stability. Violence by armed groups and the government has escalated.
The United States and European governments should stop overlooking Egyptian government abuses, including a lack of accountability for many killings of protesters by security forces, mass detentions, military trials of civilians, hundreds of death sentences, and the forced eviction of thousands of families in the Sinai Peninsula.
Dave Evans Any point you may have had disintegrates if you start it with a lie, Ellie.
Corbyn’s connections with the IRA are a matter of record.
Dave Evans Eoin is
a) not a great source – he doesn’t do things like ‘fact checking’…See More
Dave Evans But if your assertion is that Corbyn has never had contact with the IRA?
That’s trivial to disprove, Ellie.
Dave Evans You’ll note that I provided a different photograph, Ellie. From the 1980s.
Do I need to explain the differences between those two photographs, or can you work them out for yourself?
Not that Corbyn meeting with Gerry Adams shortly before the IRA detonated their largest bombing of mainland Britain EVER is a particularly *great* photo…
(and *after* that terrorist attack, Corbyn invited Adams to Parliament YET AGAIN – to sell his autobiography…)
Dave Evans It might nice if you could stay on topic for just this once, Ellie.
Stop trying to deflect, stop trying to tell us how nasty the Tories are. …See More
Dave Evans Apropos:
Dave Evans I mean – do you not know who Gerry Adams is?
Do you not know who Martin McGuinness was?…See More
Dave Evans These aren’t responses to what I’m saying, Ellie.
Nor are they relevant to what you said.
The question at hand isn’t whether Corbyn has condemned the IRA.
You claimed he had no connection whatsoever with the IRA.
What’s your basis for that claim? Given that there are, y’know, photos of him with them.
Dave Evans You know what? Don’t answer me.
But have a good hard think about it.
Because you need to know the answer to this.
If a blog or a meme got you *so* convinced about this that you’re willing to argue so vociferously about it – even in the face of photographic evidence and contemporaneous news articles – then you really need to stop and think about how readily you believe things you *want* to believe.
And whether facts matter to you, or not.
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In 1992, Ramadan Abedi was sent back to Libya by Britain’s MI6 and was involved in a British-devised plot to assassinate Muammar Gaddafi. The operation having been readily exposed, he was exfilt…See More
Dave Evans And we’re shifting the goalposts again.
Who claimed that Corbyn committed a criminal offence?
That he met with IRA members is a matter of record. It’s in Hansard. There are several photographs of him chatting with divisional commanders of the provisional IRA.
He’s admitted himself to attending memorial services for IRA martyrs (and described it as “an honour” to be invited).
Dave Evans By all means think that Corbyn’s support of the IRA doesn’t matter.
By all means think that it was years ago, or that you agree with him. …See More
http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/…/hangin… You´re welcome, no need to say thank you Dave.
Stuart Gregory Jeremy Corbyn has never met anyone from the IRA Dave.
In your haste to stick the boot into Corbyn, you are confusing Sinn Fein with the IRA.
Dave Evans It was an explicitly pro-IRA stance, Tim.
(and you mean ‘Republican’ rather than ‘Unionist’…)
Certainly his overall stance has always been in support of a united Ireland (which is a perfectly valid political position to hold), but he’s also regularly expressed that support *through support of the Provisional IRA*.
He’s met with senior members (repeatedly), he’s attended memorials for their dead, he’s protested their trials and the magazine he edited eulogised their terrorism (and, most notoriously, even celebrated the Brighton Bombing – and the deaths it caused – in an editorial)
We can’t pretend he was a distant supporter of their cause. He was an active supporter of the IRA as an entity, and a supporter of many of them as individuals.
Again – these are perfectly valid positions to hold (although in some cases a bit distasteful). There’s nothing criminal about any of it.
It’s also perfectly valid to suggest that, given the current political situation, none of this matters any more.
My issue is that far too many Corbyn supporters are eager to rewrite history on his behalf, inventing a perfect, flawless Jeremy Corbyn who has never done anything questionable.
(we see a similar thing with regard to expenses claims, where “he has low travel expenses claims” (true) has been twisted to “he always has the lowest expenses claims of any MP” (an outright lie))
Dave Evans The only republicans he met with were members of the provisional IRA, the only arguments he advanced were those aligned with Sinn Fein and the provisional IRA.
He definitely attended events relating to IRA terrorist members – so his contact wasn’t just with the ‘political wing’.
Dave Evans Again with the goalpost-moving, Andrew.
The thing is, you’ve had Corbyn’s IRA connections proved to you repeatedly. What would be the point in providing the same links to you again?
You’re just going to force the same argument again in a subsequent thread.
Honestly, the bigger issue for me is the way you lot have so much difficult acknowledging Corbyn’s background, and the things he’s championed over his political career.
This shouldn’t be controversial stuff. Most of it should be stuff you agree with, even.
(or at least aren’t bothered about)
Roger Lewis http://letthemconfectsweeterlies.blogspot.se/…/ira-uda… Try some facts Dave, just for a change.
DO you suppose that all conflict ends by the bad guys walking out with white flags and saying do with us as you will? DO grow up.
Quiggleys words.p.232 tragedy and Hope.
´´but criticism should have been directed rather at the hypocrisy and lack
of realism in the ideals of the wartime propaganda and at the lack of honesty of the chief negotiators in carrying on the pretense that these ideals were still in effect while they violated them daily, and necessarily violated them. The settlements were clearly made by secret negotiations, by the Great Powers exclusively, and by power politics. They had to be. No settlements could ever have been made on any other bases. The failure of the chief negotiators (at least the Anglo-Americans) to admit this is regrettable, but behind their
reluctance to admit it is the even more regrettable fact that the lack of political experience and political education of the American and English electorates made it dangerous for the negotiators to admit the facts of life in international political relationships.”
Dave Evans When the initial claim was “Corbyn had no IRA connections at all”, asking for proof that he “supported the PIRA’s campaign of violence” is rather more significant, wouldn’t you say?
Almost like you’re asking me to prove something that wasn’t alleged in the first place, in fact.
You’re also well aware – as am I – that the evidence has been presented to you previously, Andrew.
Why would I waste my time presenting it again?
Dave Evans I mean – are you actually contesting that Corbyn had no connection whatsoever with the Provisional IRA?
Or just that he never supported them or their goals?
Dave Evans Well that’s rather different from what Ellie claimed (and what is being claimed on various pro-Corbyn blogs), and what I was initially arguing against.
I’d contend that his mourning of IRA ‘martyrs’ was condoning their terrorism, as did his position on the editorial board of ‘Labour Briefing’ when they published their vile celebratory editorial about the Brighton Bombing, and his protest of the trial of IRA terrorists.
But that is debatable. You might think he had other reasons for those actions, or that there’s still a certain distance between his behaviour and ‘supporting violence’.
I’d also suggest that his inability to condemn IRA violence without equivocation is worrying.
(he does a similar thing when asked about anti-Semitism – he won’t condemn it, but he will condemn “all acts of bigotry”)
Again, you might be satisfied with an equivocal condemnation and think it’s splitting hairs to want him to be specific.
But it’s saying that these things *never happened* that’s my main concern.
In order to have room for debate, we need to acknowledge the basic historical facts.
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