The latest blog from Tim Morgan on the SEEDS blog is premised upon the inevitability of contraction and the clear, by Tims lights, misunderstanding of “Previous reversals” by mainstream economists.
The world economy is inevitably headed to a terminal state of “involuntary de-growth. Further, inevitability should again be submitted to, such as the most obvious areas requiring innovations are business and government. Although we are promised the possibility of further analysis vis Government, Household and Financial sectors. Again and Again, readers and believers of the SEEDS creed should submit to “”the “OBVIOUS” STARTING POINT FOR TRUE BELIEVERS SHOULD BE “PRIVATE NON-FINANCIAL CORPORATES (PNFC)
Having studied SEEDS seriously for several years now it seems “Obvious ” to this non-believing heretic that Energy Scarcity as an inevitability is a patsy for Austerity. And that the ignored Financial system and the predication of its monetary system upon short term scarcities as a state of inevitable permanence, is what is preached from the Seeds Pulpit.
Seeds are embued with the magical “Prosperity” elixir which we are assured is declining inevitably and that due to “Market forces” then, decomplexification(sic) through consolidation is necessary. We learn that even the essential sectors of the economy will not be left unpunished by the “invisible hand of prosperities reversal from beneficence to malignant catastrophe”.
We are told “it would be wholly irrational to expect financial stimulus to restore the “energy abundance” of the past, and further that Technolgy as a possible solution to any of the wicked curses reigning down from the Gods of the invisible hand Is one of the Great delusions of the Age. And there endeth the first hymn to millenarian destiny.
Again the only answer is:
The reality of involuntary de-growth
For the purposes of this discussion, it’s going to be assumed that readers understand the inevitability of de-growth.
Amen.
Degrowth is a Euphamism for Austerity and Austerity is the Patsy for De-population.
Tim calls it Involuntary quantative de-growth.
Further lexical clarifications.
“Un-productive complexities” = Financial bubbles
“degrowth started in the 1990’s” = massive differential accumulation became possible in a temporary unipolar full spectrum dominance of the Washington consensus mafia.
Second, policy trends during a growth climacteric which(sic) began in the 1990s have added unproductive complexity to the economy.
Climacteric (human), the time in most women’s lives when menstrual periods stop permanently
Climacteric (botany), a stage of fruit ripening
Climacteric (journal), a journal published by Informa Healthcare
Climacteric year, in astrology
I don’t think it’s that time of the month for Seeds so I am guessing that this is a tip of the hat to the astrological bent which seeds seems now to have claimed as its right.
So what else can we look forward to in the Annus Climactericus of the SEEDS crystal ball?
There are resource restraints aplenty and Stephen Kurz the witch burner general of SEEDs would wager as with his hero Erlich that Strawmen are not straw and that Smil is Smail and the only good quotation is an unfalsifiable one or one he deems expert in his opinion of course. This is of course all Obviuos unless: of course, you are not made of the Right Stuff, capable of The right-thinking and, simply do not see
that SEEDS is as it is and is as it should be in any properly ordered pecking order with Obedience to above and authority to below.
A Bridge to Far.
From a business perspective, the issues have at least the merit of clarity. Consumer prosperity is deteriorating, whilst resource constraints are the primary factor driving business costs upwards. The appropriate responses are (a) cost control and (b) the pursuit of resilience. These need to be seen as distinct but connected challenges.
There are two stand-out risks to business resilience.
The first of these is adverse utilization effects
The second risk to resilience is loss of critical mass
In being a classical dupe for Pareto efficiency Tim fails to understand the Biological reality of cooperators trending to 12 Log 2-8 and the insights of Bernard Leitaer Vis. The stratification , layering and diversification within all successful ecological systems, and the essentail addition of this dynamic complexity into any resonably useful model of Political economy.
SEEDs has lost their way, sadly it has now become a spectacle of the willfully blind leading the actually blind and of course everyone else is deplorable for thinking otherwise. Back in the day Tim advocated for a need for new ideas of course his disciples caveat only the right kind of ideas though.
FreeTrade Vs Free Markets. The Camera Obscura of the Elite Propaganda discombobulation.
The driving motivation behind the accelerated rush to a Techno Fascist Feudalism has been occupying my mind for the years leading up to the Repo Spike in New York in September 2019.
In the Financialised economy and with the CBDC push tied to DIgital Id’s, we see a symptom of the appearance of what the system is trying to preserve, namely itself and its Monopoly ingroup. The real Economy is put in the position of trying to make bricks without straw, a misallocation of resources, and the Credit tokens to acquire those resources.
The Dominant Resource tieing the Financial system’s real potentials to the Real potentials of the real economy is the Flow of Energy resources and Primary resources through the economy. It would seem that a Hard limit on available energy to sustain the present industrial output of the global economy has been hit, what seems inexplicable is the Priorities touted in narratives regarding Why our largest Energy Sources the Hydro Carbons, Gas, Oil and Coal, and the largest potential replacement for them Nuclear are being demonised? It is more properly described as being stood down, why? Climate Change, The Climate Crisis, The Plague of Humans. (1)
“The key fact in the new development of plutocracy is that it will use its own blunder as an excuse for further crimes. Everywhere the very completeness of the impoverishment will be made a reason for the enslavement; though the men who impoverished were the same who enslaved. It is as if a highwayman not only took away a gentleman’s horse and all his money, but then handed him over to the police for tramping without visible means of subsistence. And the most monstrous feature in this enormous meanness may be noted in the plutocratic appeal to science, or, rather, to the pseudo-science that they call Eugenics.”
UTOPIA OF USURERS G K Chesterton.
Degrowth, recessions and Mortality. Emissions Austerity and Mortality. The Deflationary Carbon Based “Gold-standard”. [(((Carbon Credits(( “Just,(“” In Time””)”)))]
Piigs Ignorance, Peak Oil Primitivism and The Road Out of Serfdom
Policy Based Evidence Making. Inside the Beltway 2.
‘Pandemic’ narrative over…false flag in Ukraine next?Gavin O’Reilly
The driving motivation behind the accelerated rush to a Techno Fascist Feudalism has been occupying my mind for the years leading up to the Repo Spike in New York in September 2019.
In the Financialised economy and with the CBDC push tied to Digital Id’s, we see a symptom of the appearance of what the system is trying to preserve, namely itself and its Monopoly ingroup. The real Economy is put in the position of trying to make bricks without straw, a misallocation of resources, and the Credit tokens to acquire those resources.
The Dominant Resource tieing the Financial system’s real potentials to the Real potentials of the real economy is the Flow of Energy resources and Primary resources through the economy. It would seem that a Hard limit on available energy to sustain the present industrial output of the global economy has been hit, what seems inexplicable is the Priorities touted in narratives regarding Why our largest Energy Sources the Hydro Carbons, Gas, Oil and Coal, and the largest potential replacement for them Nuclear are being demonised? It is more properly described as being stood down, why? Climate Change, The Climate Crisis, The Plague of Humans. (1)
“The purpose of the 4th Industrial revolution is to stymie the development of energy resources and to control Population and growth and instigate rapid population decline”.
The cakes currently burning King Alfred style were placed in the Oven in the pivotal period.
2015 Election, Feb 2016 oil price low, 2016 Brexit/trump, 2017 Election, September 2018 Repo Spike 2019 Election, Covid 19.
Covid 19 is a distraction the main currents date back to policy following the break up of the Soviet Union, 1990, 2000 Dot Com Bubble, 9/11, 7/7, 2008 GFC 2010 Coalition and
Build Back Better Going Direct and 4IR are all Political Slogans for the Trilateral World Government party, which represents only the hybridized Elite Billionaire class and their lackeys. Differential accumulation is their only concern and also of course population control.
The Economic Superorganism: Beyond the Competing Narratives on Energy, Growth, and Policy by Carey W. King
My rating: 3 of 5 stars
Charles A. S. Hall’s Cover blurb for the Carey w King Tomb is I think a fair reaction to what is a long and complex book. The author himself says that the lengthy quotes ( for context) and juxtaposition of opposing narratives are overly long
As a choice for the material, I question the wisdom of the choice but congratulate the effort, the net result if one is being generous, works and is fittingly described in the blurb by a giant in the field of Energy-Based economics( Political Economy)Prof. Charles Hall.
Marx via Schumpeter makes an appearance late in the book, which saves some face on the shortcomings in monetary theory, and the influence on the Author’s thinking of Prof Steve Keen’s own flavour of heterodox Economics shows, also in reflecting Keen’s own limitations. The Authors dislike of Matt Riddley shines through and gives a tell to the Authors own inclinations, an admitted likely failing in his own introduction (“I discuss many matters as objectively as I can, but I don’t claim that either, or anyone can be perfectly objective. “) Well said.
The Chapters on Debt and Finance are fine as far as they go and the Schumpeter quotes save the whole piece to my own tastes for a better grasp of Shumpeters insights into the money as credit context see Werner, much of the polemic even allowing for putting both sides is hackneyed retreaded phony “enfant terriblism” of the Leather jacket like Yannis’ variety.
Getting the niceties out of the way the Lacunae is the old apples and Oranges problem encountered at the SEEDS Surplus Energy Blog of Dr. Tim Morgan, Dangerous Exponentials, and The Perfect Storm.
In Short, the book is an exercise in knocking down mutually opposed straw men arguments, much of the argumentation I take no issue with whatsoever but the Ultimate apologetics for the discredited Climate Scientism and advocacy for Carbon indulgences ( SPASH #WrongKindofGreen Brave New World of Carbon Trading ) coupled with a failure to consider International Finance and PetroDollar hegemony which is an effect that the Authors own “Swing producer” price stability arguments for Texas in 1935, and in which we find ourselves living again in a deflationary age of a Quasi Petro/Carbon Gold Standard.
QED.
Who is paying the higher cost of energy ? Turning up the Differential Accumulation heat.
#221. Strategies for a post-growth economy
#221. Strategies for a post- Delusional Economy. #85 -#221 The making of a death cult.
Posted on November 5, 2019
THE ANATOMY OF DEGROWTH – A SEEDS ANALYSIS
Unless you’ve been stranded on a desert island, cut off from all sources of information, you’ll know that the global economy is deteriorating markedly, whilst risk continues to increase. Even the most perennially optimistic observers now concede that the ultra-loose policies which I call ‘monetary adventurism’, introduced in response to the 2008 global financial crisis (GFC), haven’t worked. Popular unrest is increasing around the world, even in places hitherto generally regarded as stable, with worsening hardship a central cause.
An interesting piece at first Blush Tim. It will be interesting to follow the comments.
My initial response is that the analysis of the economy as an Energy Transformation machine and only an Energy Transformation machine is going too far the other way.
What I mean by that is that the old Marxist notions of Labour and only Labour being the source of wealth in the economy leads to overreaching in that one direction by ignoring the other Inputs.
In this case, Energy and its importance are stated but other inputs including Labour and raw materials other than energy inputs are also key. Your cursory dealing with renewables, for instance, fails to recognise the breeder renewable possibilities and also ignores circular economy notions of re-recycling and designing for both repair and maintenance and end of life reuse and recycling. In this sort of Circular economy accounting the embedded energy in material goods is accounted for and recycled, there is a stock inventory of converted energy in products in use which is not lost at the end of economic life, your analysis does not complete its promise by ignoring these aspects of Circular Economics.
finally my old point that the Seeds basis should be on an energy equivalent basis, the existing currency accounting unit is broken beyond repair and unfit for purpose, as big an ask that is for people to get their heads around, without grasping that nettle Seeds’ is doomed to going into the cul-de-sac of financial mysticism wrapped up in the un-pin downable gobbly goop of the Economics priesthood.
Unravelling Catastrophe. Seeds of Hope or Seeds of destruction.
Thank you for another interesting post Dr Morgan.
Does SEEDS offer any insight into how the rate at which energy is accessed by the economy affects our prosperity?For example, shale appears to have increased the rate at which chemical energy can be accessed by the economy relative to the economy’s ability to use it (i.e. convert that chemical energy to other forms of energy) and so the monetary price of oil has fallen even as the ECoE has risen.
The economy appears to change the way it uses energy more rapidly in response to the monetary price of oil that it does in response to rising ECoE. Some of the changes in response to a lower price of oil appear to exacerbate the effects of rising ECoE. How can economic actors look beyond the oil price?
It is interesting but not wholly surprising to me that Dr. Tim Morgan has not answered this “Confounding” question showing the inconvenient truth in Dr. Morgans Seeds analysis. Seeds is something of a black box , we are not allowed to look under the hood of Dr. Morgans claims that Energy Cost of energy (ECOE) is acting as a hard limit to the prospect of prosperity in the world economy.
This question from Will, shows how far short Dr Morgans analysis comes up in answering the Balance between the effects of Finance and the Financialised Economy over the real Energy availability questions. The shortcomings in Dr. Morgan’s analysis encompass Ignorance of Technological innovation and invention and in short, the massive trend we see of actors in the modern economy’s ability to do more with less as per pro current technology and energy mixes.
World average prosperity per capita has declined only marginally since 2007, essentially because deterioration in the West has been offset by continued progress in the emerging market (EM) economies. This, though, is nearing its point of inflexion, with clear evidence now showing that the Chinese economy, in particular, is in very big trouble.
This is no more or less than a managed process towards a new Feudalism, a race to the bottom where the metric is relative levels of absolute poverty in the precariat. Prosperity is a redundant metric for the new Feudalism in the MMT Green new deal Gulag. The metrics will be utilitarian which will be similar to any metric used in concentration camps or slave colonies for Egyptian pyramid projects. What is the minimal sustenance budget for each economic human labour unit, what is the natural replacement rate and what level of control is required within the Pareto efficient distribution of Human labour unit classification? Think Brave new world and 1984.
rogerglewis on December 21, 2019 at 11:57 am said:
Nord Stream 2: Trump approves sanctions on Russia gas pipeline
The Medium is the message?
Gas Wars, Pipelines, Silk Road
It’s not the Energy Substantially but the Means of Exchange, I.e petrodollar Hegemony.
A debt-based PetroDollar has been the most powerful Geo-Political and Soft Power Tool of the Rules-Based International Order for a century or So.
The Paradigm Shift being witnessed in front of our eyes but not seen for what it is is a move to a Carbon Trading based Unit of Currency. This is a proxy for energy usage as so much energy is generated by burning carbon. It is though the social control and governance mechanism embedded within the Debt Based currency and Taxation system which the “Masters of The Universe” are interested in maintaining.
It is Debt-based money at Interest that drives the need for Growth as the system does not reverse it only works one way.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-50875935
IN QUEST OF NATIONAL IDEA: “ENERGY RUBLE” BOUND TO BE THE HARDEST CURRENCY. VICTOR EFIMOV NEWSPAPER “CHAS PIK”, MAY 6, 2004
“None of the manuals on Economics puts a question of how a state gets wealthy; they focus on the art of getting rich within a single corporation, a single bank, or give a piece of advice to individual wealth. Nevertheless, in real life, the corporate effect proves to be achieved at the expense of some damage done to the state and society. The Russian economy has been purposely demonetized to hit one of the bottom positions in the world rating. This ‘blood’ loss was behind the collapse of all the parts of the industrial sector, and the intentionally created ruble vacuum was designed to be filled with US dollars and other monetary substitutes. There is no need at all to talk about the banking sector” ‘development’ if we are aiming at the establishment of the financial atmosphere that would facilitate real production. Banking could ‘develop’ for the account of finance pumped out of the industry by means of the interest rate. We need to restore the functionally appropriate relation of ‘money supply to GDP’ by a ‘one-shot blood transfusion’ Etimov. prof.
12log 2-8’ers gonna 12log 2-8, and Haters Gonna Hate. #Aadhaar
No Stephen I would not wish to indulge your wish for a “Long Bet ” for charity or indeed for profit.
and John Adams, I have posted a detailed blog of the differences of emphasis which Tim and I have regarding Energy Based economics and the interpretation of the historical course of Political Economy in the Age of Capital. ( Kapital).
The latest blog from Tim Morgan on the SEEDS blog is premised upon the inevitability of contraction and the clear, by Tims’s lights, misunderstanding of “Previous reversals” by mainstream economists.
The world economy is inevitably headed to a terminal state of “involuntary de-growth. Further, inevitably should again be submitted to, such as the most obvious areas requiring innovations are business and government. Although we are promised the possibility of further analysis vis Government, Household and Financial sectors. Again and Again, readers and believers of the SEEDS creed should submit to “” the “OBVIOUS” STARTING POINT FOR TRUE BELIEVERS SHOULD BE “PRIVATE NON-FINANCIAL CORPORATES (PNFC)
Having studied SEEDS seriously for several years now it seems “Obvious ” to this non-believing heretic that Energy Scarcity as an inevitability is a patsy for Austerity. And that the ignored Financial system and the predication of its monetary system upon short-term scarcities as a state of inevitable permanence, is what is preached from the Seeds Pulpit.
Did you hear the one about the Blind Straw-man leading the Blind Straw-men. A Utopia of Usurers. the plutocratic appeal to science, or, rather, to the pseudo-science that they call Seeds.
Degrowth is a Euphamism for Austerity and Austerity is the Patsy for De-population.
Tim calls it Involuntary quantative de-growth.
Further lexical clarifications.
“Un-productive complexities” = Financial bubbles
“degrowth started in the 1990’s” = massive differential accumulation became possible in a temporary unipolar full spectrum dominance of the Washington consensus mafia.
In being a classical dupe for Pareto efficiency Tim fails to understand the Biological reality of cooperators trending to 12 Log 2-8 and the insights of Bernard Leitaer Vis. The stratification, layering, and diversification within all successful ecological systems, and the essential addition of this dynamic complexity into any reasonably useful model of Political economy.
4.2. Population Reduction
The second front in a one-Earth living strategy is a global one-child fertility standard. This is needed to reduce the global population to the one billion or so people that can thrive sustainably in reasonable material comfort within the constraints of a non-fossil energy future and already much damaged Earth [101,102].
LIVE DEBATE NIGHT
See GrubStreetJournal’s other Tweets
This was the context of Quoting Leitaer and not a rather juvenile appeal to Authority, and certainly not with respect to a binary materialism or Idealism meme. So far from an easy to find “supportive” writer I quoted Bernards work in a much more subtle sense and quite different to your apparent strawman as set out at point 1.
Bernard And I were also connected on Skype and I have quoted his work and employed his writing extensively and he was aware that I was a Disciple of sorts for his work. I have read pretty much everything Bernard has published and recommended his Blog to anyone.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190224092730/http://www.lietaer.com/category/glossary/
Yin-Yang—the Taoist concept of the relationship between polarities.
- Lastly, neither you nor I can easily alter our views.
We are individuals and our lived contexts and viewpoints will be forever on different paths. Here we meet at a fork in the road Steven.
For myself, I take Osho’s essay on Ego the false center as my Sensai,
But First.
1. “I am also offended by the notion that one needs to be one or the other and that Materialism and Idealism are of necessity or custom mutually exclusive. I do not believe they are and there are more ways of being and acting than as through Matter or Thought in three dimensions of time and space.”
- “Three modes of evolution have thus been brought before us: evolution by fortuitous variation, evolution by mechanical necessity, and evolution by creative love. We may term them tychastic evolution, or tychasm, anancastic evolution, or anancasm, and agapastic evolution, or agapasm. The doctrines which represent these as severally of principal importance we may term tychasticism, anancasticism,and agapasticism. On the other hand the mere propositions that absolute chance, mechanical necessity, and the law of love are severally operative in the cosmos may receive the names of tychism, anancism, and agapism.” — C. S. Peirce, 1893[2]
-
Why are we here, An essay provoked by Golem XIv´s David Malones latest Documentary Series.
And Finally Osho
So you have two centers. One center you come with, which is given by existence itself. That is the self. And the other center, which is created by the society, is the ego. It is a false thing – and it is a very great trick. Through the ego the society is controlling you. You have to behave in a certain way, because only then does the society appreciate you. You have to walk in a certain way; you have to laugh in a certain way; you have to follow certain manners, a morality, a code. Only then will the society appreciate you, and if it doesn’t, you ego will be shaken. And when the ego is shaken, you don’t know where you are, who you are.
The others have given you the idea.
That idea is the ego.
#155. The art of dark sky thinking
Ying and Yang and the Climate Church Strawman. #GrubStreetJournal @wiki_ballot
#221. Strategies for a post- Delusional Economy. #85 -#221 The making of a death cult.
To Quote Quine, I have in mind his differences of degree and not kind in a way,
this from Two dogmas of empiricism.
´´As an empiricist I continue to think of the conceptual scheme of science as a tool, ultimately, for predicting future experience in the light of past experience. Physical objects are conceptually imported into the situation as convenient intermediaries — not by defnition in terms of experience, but simply as irreducible posits18b comparable, epistemologically, to the gods of Homer. Let me interject that for my part I do, qua lay physicist, believe in physical objects and not in Homer’s gods; and I consider it a scientifc error to believe otherwise.´´ http://www.ditext.com/quine/quine.html
Why are we here, An essay provoked by Golem XIv´s David Malones latest Documentary Series.
rogerglewis
on February 4, 2022 at 7:07 pm said:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Hi Blond Beast,
Have a read of this from the CEO of Thorcon .
https://atomicinsights.com/clean-doable-liquid-fission-lf-energy-roadmap-%E2%80%A8powering-world/
On the other questions regarding Pottable water look at Waterstillar the Danish company, On soil degradation again there are solutions which are frustrated by re-wilding fanatics.
Regreening the desert with John D. Liu | VPRO Documentary | 2012
Energy is Ubiquitous, yet Value is an abstract concept and there are experiential values which exceed their Energy input where an abstract value, such as a monetary unit is allowed to reflect the Market determined price.
The fact is that there are different levels of needs and wants and over an above fundamental survival requirements, Say 2500 Calories a day including embodied energy for Shelter and dietary requirements.
What are the absolute bands of energy requirements, how much energy is Wasted and how much-embodied energy can be re-cycled that is currently wasted all have to factor into any ongoing Energy Based Distribution system and energy-based system for determining and energy-based into of account?
What is the problem with having a different type of Currency, why does Destruction of the existing unfit for purpose system have to be taken as read?
There have been successive efforts since the Nixon shock to replace the current international FInance model, that we are moving to a Multi-Polar world seems an inescapable conclusion, with all the potential problems this represents for the Dollar centric hegemony.
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it is always a good maxim but if a new design is called for to replace an obsolete system then everything is on the table.
I personally reject your four-point example and the inevitability of your conclusion Tim.
The world has tremendous potential as does the industrial capacity and also cultural and technological potentials of current technology. Of course, there are fundamental changes which need to be made The single biggest problem is the mispricing inherent in the financialised late-stage capitalism which has morphed already into Fascism, otherwise known as Neo-Liberalism.
Pierre Joseph Proudhon proposed a reform to banking which was quite simply to abolish the private monopoly on the creation of Currency as debt at interest. Peter Kropotkin describes Prouhdond Simple idea and its effect as follows,
https://archive.org/details/PeterKropotkinEntryOnanarchismFromTheEncyclopdiaBritannica/page/n1/mode/2up
Now Proudhon advocated a society without government, and
used the word Anarchy to describe it. Proudhon repudiated,
as is known, all schemes of Communism, according to which
mankind would be driven into communistic monasteries or
barracks, as also all the schemes of state or state-aided socialism
which were advocated by Louis Blanc and the Collectivists. When
he proclaimed in his first memoir on property that ” Property
is theft,” he meant only property in its present, Roman-law,
sense of ” right of use and abuse ” ; in property-rights, on the other
hand, understood in the limited sense of possession, he saw the
best protection against the encroachments of the state. At the
same time he did not want violently to dispossess the present
owners of land, dwelling-houses, mines, factories and so on. He
preferred to attain the same end by rendering capital incapable
of earning interest; and this he proposed to obtain by means of
a national bank, based on the mutual confidence of all those who
are engaged in production, who would agree to exchange among
themselves their produces at cost-value, by means of labour
cheques representing the hours of labour required to produce
every given commodity. Under such a system, which Proudhon
described as ” Mutuellisme,” all the exchanges of services would be
strictly equivalent. Besides, such a bank would be enabled to
lend money without interest, levying only something like 1 %,
or even less, for covering the cost of administration. Every one
being thus enabled to borrow the money that would be required
to buy a house, nobody would agree to pay any more a yearly
rent for the use of it. A general ” social liquidation ” would
thus be rendered easy, without violent expropriation. The same
applied to mines, railways, factories and so on.
In a society of this type the state would be useless. The chief
relations between citizens would be based on free agreement and
regulated by mere account keeping. The contests might be
settled by arbitration. A penetrating criticism of the state and
all possible forms of government, and a deep insight into all
economic problems, were well-known characteristics of Proudhon’s
work.
On the Continuum of Infinity what you do not set out is that we are pushing Limits? Vague claims as to Climate Heating are actually unsupported in the serious academic literature. That the Monetary system is not fit for purpose is obvious to many as you say, it seems somewhat silly though to look for solutions from the people who have continued to make an unpromising system worse over the past 30 years.
We have of course agreed to disagree before.
#121: Interpreting the post-growth economy
The problems in Political Economy as it stands presently and the question of future Political Economy based upon future Energy realities are I think helpfully separated which is something Prof. David MacKay is very successful with, in his presentation of the question.
The Problems are only weakly related with respect to future solutions and breaking the process into 3 parts is useful rather than lumping them all together. It is clear that the existing Form of Market economy and political economy is not able to solve the problem at stage 3 ( I.E Post 2050 post-Oil Economy)
Stage 1 requires a reform of the existing paradigm which involves facing up to the broken debt-based money system. Pension provision, the sovereign debt crisis and Public debt crisis are all addressable and will see improvements even within the deteriorating Cost of energy inputs as a share of output. We could call this stage lets fix what we know is not working.
Stage 2 covers the Post Financialised ( Big Bang Experiment) period to the oil running out in 2050.
This requires a much more long-term investment horizon and complicating the energy mix by overstating the ”Climate Change question** seems to be counterproductive, again I like the way Prof David Mackay dealt with the question including stating the necessities of **Clean Coal and Nuclear”. In this stage, we will be implementing ideas previously barred due to the denial inherent in clinging to a failing system.
Stage 3 Post 2050, This part is much easier than Stage 2 and stage 1, in my opinion, the myth-busting and levelling out inherent in solving the political problems at stage 1 and the challenge to vested interests in stage 2 are by far and away the largest obstacles to getting down to Brass tacks in my opinion.
To Quote Quine, I have in mind his differences of degree and not kind in a way,
this from Two dogmas of empiricism.
´´As an empiricist I continue to think of the conceptual scheme of science as a tool, ultimately, for predicting future experience in the light of past experience. Physical objects are conceptually imported into the situation as convenient intermediaries — not by defnition in terms of experience, but simply as irreducible posits18b comparable, epistemologically, to the gods of Homer. Let me interject that for my part I do, qua lay physicist, believe in physical objects and not in Homer’s gods; and I consider it a scientifc error to believe otherwise.´´
http://www.ditext.com/quine/quine.html
Prof. Dennis Ranacourt and Dr Adrian Wriggley
CT: You discuss the need for states to ensure consent: the need to pacify, hypnotize and align populations for continued globalization; more precisely, the need to divert attention from the structural violence of economic policies and the actual violence of militarism. Can you say something about how the issue of global warming relates to this?
DR: Irrespective of whether the so-called ‘climate crisis’ is real, exaggerated or fabricated, it is clear, from the data in my report, that the ethos of global warming was engineered on a global scale and benefits the exploiters of the carbon-economy and, more indirectly, the state.
https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/06/13/from-dollar-hegemony-to-global-warming-globalization-glyphosate-and-doctrines-of-consent/
the new realist orders
There are likely to be three different realist orders in the foreseeable future:
a thin international order and two thick bounded orders—one led by China,
the other by the United States. The emerging thin international order will be
concerned mainly with overseeing arms control agreements and making the
global economy work efªciently P.38
Is the present “Collapse” Managed, Engineered, or an inevitability of Elitist Hubris?
I would argue its a combination of Premature transition management engineering, What’s known as the “Great Reset”
Presently though Central Bank Digital Currencies a new Going Direct solution to the misdiagnosed Banking collapse of the September 2019 New York repo rate spike is being implemented.
“The BlackRock plan calls for blurring the lines between government fiscal policy and central bank monetary policy – exactly what the U.S. Treasury and the Federal Reserve are doing today in the United States. BlackRock has now been hired by the Federal Reserve, the Bank of Canada, and Sweden’s central bank, Riksbank, to implement key features of the plan. Three of the authors of the BlackRock plan previously worked as central bankers in the U.S., Canada and Switzerland, respectively.”
https://www.blacklistednews.com/article/77171/blackrock-authored-the-bailout-plan-before-there-was-a-crisis%E2%80%93now-its-been-hired-by-three-central.html
When discovering the structure of DNA, Francis Crick famously announced to his drinking companions in a Cambridge tavern that he had discovered the ‘secret of life’. The director of
his Institute, Max Perutz, was rather more careful than Crick when he
said that DNA was the ‘score of life’. That is more correct since a musical
score does nothing until it is played. DNA does nothing until activated
to do so. pp.35 “Dance to the Tune of Life: Biological Relativity 1st Edition
by Denis Noble
Regarding Garrets work and the paper in review with Steve Keen, I think it is reductive and also submits to a FInite type of analysis which does not seem to accommodate the dynamics in potentials available regarding the rate of flow of energy into and through a system and the responsiveness of the system to feedback.
The idea of a Musical Score, as opposed to a fixed recipe in Denis Noble book, is I think a good conceptual comparison of two approaches to the same set of Data , of course there are many potentials between the two categories of approach.
Douthwaite The Ecology of Money (Schumacher Briefing, 4) https://az.1lib.to/book/896040/105bf6
Chapter 4: One Country, Four Currencies
“Now we’ve surveyed the various types of money system, we come to the exciting bit – specifying
the integrated multi-currency system of the future. We have seen that three groups (commercial
institutions, governments and users) can create money. Very little can be said in favour of
allowing the commercial creation of money to continue. Instead, money should be created by
non-profit-seeking organisations representing the people using it. In the case of a democratic
country, this would obviously include a national or regional government working on behalf of its
people.
At least four types of money are needed. One is an international currency, playing the role taken
by gold before the collapse of the gold exchange standard. The second is a national or regional
(sub-national) currency that would relate to the international currency in some way. Thirdly, we
would need a plethora of currencies which, like LETS, the WIR and the commodity-based
currencies, could be created at will by their users to mobilise resources left untapped by national
or regional systems. Many of these user currencies would confine their activities to particular
geographic areas, but some would link non-spatially-based communities of interest. And fourth,
as our current money’s store of value function can so easily conflict with its use as a means of
exchange, special currencies are needed for people wishing to see their savings hold their value
while still keeping them in a fairly liquid form.”
Douthwaites briefing has a foreward by Beranrd Leitaer.
“Do I agree with all the ideas that are presented here? Even Douthwaite admits that he doesn’t
“expect everyone to agree with the conclusions he has reached”. For instance, although I agree
with him on the importance of linking monetary issues to energy sustainability, I question the
viability of the means he proposes. (Why not include his “Energy-Backed Currency Units”
(ebcu) as part of a basket of commodities and services backing the currency – rather than being
the exclusive backing of currency?”
Leitaers TERRA is easily sourced on line .
Back to Nobels biological Theme The work of Martin Nowak as demonstrated in David Malones excellent series why are we here speaks to the idea of a measure of some cooperation and some competition.
https://www.whyarewehere.tv/people/martin-nowak/
MN: Yeah, let us start the game. And we see, yes, these defectors, they are spreading, you know. So the colours that we are observing here are: red are defectors and blue are co-operators, and yellow and green are changing sides.
So yellow is now a new defector: it was a co-operator before. And green is a new co-operator: it was a defector before. We see the pattern is spreading. A kind of symmetry is being maintained here because they are deterministic of the rules, and the initial symmetry is never broken. But the amazing thing is these co-operators, they are persistent. They just refuse to get wiped out and they survive in those clusters. And if you watch very carefully, you see the clusters, they are actually growing until they collide with other clusters, and then they’re shrinking, and then they grow.
David: But they never go out of business.
MN: But they never get out of business. And the amazing thing is the average abundance of co-operators in this pattern is very close to 12log 2-8.
David: What does that mean?
Ard: It’s close to constant.
MN: It converges to a constant which is approximately 31%, and this is a mathematical curiosity.
Ard: Natural selection would say the co-operators would get wiped out, because they are paying a cost to help their competitors. And yet it’s not happening. So why?
12LOG 2-8’ERS GONNA 12LOG 2-8, AND HATERS GONNA HATE. #AADHAAR
NEOCLASSICAL POLITICAL ECONOMY: SKATING ON THIN ICE. “THE PURPOSE OF THE 4TH INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION I
On ECOE, I do think the Net energy cliff is a thing, that said the ratio is not fixed and immutable, for renewable or even for existing oil and other hydrocarbon reserves, clearly modern recovery methods have lowered the Dollar cost of recovery and presumably the Energy Cost of extraction.
#221. Strategies for a post- Delusional Economy. #85 -#221 The making of a death cult.
It Don’t mean a thing if it ain’t got that Swing . Tides of the Petrodollar Moon.
THE PLAN TO RULE THE WORLD – MICHAEL COFFMAN
In this segment, Michael Coffman discusses the plan to rule the world. This segment comes from the “Rescuing A Broken America” briefing pack published by Koinonia House.https://notthegrubstreetjournal.com/2022/01/24/piigs-ignorance-peak-oil-primitavism-and-the-road-out-of-serfdom/
http://leconomistamascherato.blogspot.com/2011/09/is-carbon-currency-endgame.html
NOW YOU SEE ME? THE CARBON CURRENCY END GAME #COVIDPURPOSE #DISTRACTION
QED.
Thank you John Adams ,
I have read through the Book.
I will read it in more detail. It certainly has a great framework to base a scientific discussion around.
Without hot air by The Late prof. Sir David MacKay is well worth a read its easily findable online. For the less mathematically minded Davids’s book would certainly make a good primer for the Murphy book.
Regarding the shape of and timescale over which an Energy Transformation will take place
There are of course challenges if one has to adhere to an Urgent timescale.
My view is that there is no urgency and those particularly invested in the Urgency narratives tend to be
more closed-minded as to what potential replacement energy sources can take up the slack where other staple energy sources are unable to meet the demands of the future human requirements.
Thorcon is a private company that has done remarkably well, that said in China, The Russian Federation’s large State-backed initiatives are I believe are still under test presently, although may actually be operational as that has been imminent for a month or two.
I am personally very keen on Renewables, I like both Wind and Solar a lot the point about the portfolio of solutions appropriate for different scales and community, national and international scales are quite different and the time scales of what is realistic across those multivariate scales are all hardly surprisingly somewhat different. Schumacher’s Small is beautiful is a good starting point for forming a base from which possibilities can be built.
I am a keen follower of Clive Spashes work. Clive and I are not on the same page with respect to the reasons for reforming the economic system based upon energy throughputs but his analysis is in my experience usually very solid.
Clive is very direct here in his critique of Rawworths Dough Nut.( He is absolutely correct in his criticisms)
The second segment of that online discussion of the UN SDG’s is also very much well worth watching.
Clive has written on the #Wrong Kind of green quite extensively.
There are several political agendas surrounding the environmental issues caused by the present FInancialised Monopoly
Capitalism. I acknowledge those problems also & agree with Clive regarding the Imperialist Agendas with respect to resource pillage from Indigenous cultures and communities.
Green Washing is a massive problem, the Carbon Trading non-solutions touted by Carney and Bloomberg do not address those problems that Clive Spash so brilliantly deconstructs in his seminal paper the Brave new world of carbon trading.
What Carney is about is cementing the Wealth disparities created by the rapacious robber baron exploits of the rentier class
over the past century and a half. Neo-Classical Economics is created in the image of the Divine right of the Rentier Class.
I agree with Clive that energy throughputs need to be the basis for future Political economy and its metrics ( It is this point mainly where I think SEEDS comes unstuck.)
, the lexicon of the new energy abundance economics is yet to be written, the writing of that lexicon will require rather more reasoned debate than those who made up their minds long ago are prepared to allow.
Thank you John Adams ,
6 UN SDG Conf (Pt IIe) Clive Spash 2nd critique of Raworth Doughnut Economics plus Aili Keskitalo comments from Clive Spash on Vimeo.
All you ever wanted to know about Carbon Trading but were too afraid to ask from Clive Spash on Vimeo.
The lies they tell you about economics, growth and smart green inclusive economies. Exposed! from Clive Spash on Vimeo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Greta_Thunberg/Archive_1
[1]There are two key articles related to this Activism initiative [1] and this response from Greta Thunberg [2][3] aspects of manufacturing consent and controlled opposition and Gatekeepers all figure and the initiative should not be left here un-critically, the pedagogical aspects of Wikipedia should not be ignored to promote activism.[4] I will work up a påaragraph with the first two references as this article is really a trotting out of the PR campaign from [5] RogerGLewis (talk) 06:05, 6 February 2019 (UTC)RogerGLewis (talk) 06:37, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
[2] Wrong kind of green is an anti-capitalist indigenous peoples group, not a lobbyist group for big oil. That Clive Lord, Founder of the Green Party of England and Wales ais also commenting is of note also [3] [4] RogerGLewis (talk) 02:23, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
References
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Extinction_Rebellion
http://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2019/01/28/the-manufacturing-of-greta-thunberg-for-consent-the-most-inconvenient-truth-capitalism-is-in-danger-of-falling-apart/#comment-300785
Monbiot, Attenborough, and Greta Thunberg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clive_Lord
8 thoughts on “Did you hear the one about the Blind Straw-man leading the Blind Straw-men. A Utopia of Usurers . the plutocratic appeal to science, or, rather, to the pseudo-science that they call Seeds.”